[Allan Martorana]: Right. Well, Daria, let's address the one item. I wanted to thank you all for attending on short notice. I know we all have busy schedules, so I do thank you for jumping on and making this happen. Daria, thank you for kind of putting this all together on such short notice also. I'm the oldest one on the licensing commission. And we always used to, when we'd issue licenses, it would always say till one o'clock. At least that's how it's been since I've been on the commission well over 10 years. Now we have learned that perhaps we need to tweak that or revisit that rule. It's not verbatim that even though it says one o'clock on the license, it means that they can serve till one o'clock. They have to get prior approval from the city council a special permit. So I think that was my last conversation with Daria. Does that sound right, Daria, something to that effect? Yes. So Mike Dennis, thank you for joining. Is there any more light you can shed with that? Have we been doing it wrong for all these years or did we just do it was an oversight and now it's a new year and we need to correct it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it was just basically the zoning ordinance says any business to, if you want to operate with extended hours, you need a special permit. So pretty much, yeah, the liquor license says one thing, the zoning ordinance says another. So yeah, it has caused a little bit of confusion.
[Allan Martorana]: Okay, okay. And Dario, you and I talked and we didn't think it would be prudent of us to just implement it immediately. And we thought, you know what, let's give everyone a chance to file their permit and get before the council. And we were talking about what, 60 days, 90 days, 120 days. From your experience or interacting with everybody, what do you think is a fair, timeframe. Oh, it's funny.
[Daria Tejera]: Any any Cali stop by today too. And I was like any I need to talk to you. She's works at the city clerks and she's the one that did the special the special permit hours sheet. So I was talking to her about it. And she mentioned that most of these clubs clubs do not have common victor license. So I think when you don't have common victual or you operate, whatever hours, because you're not serving food. So, she was saying that maybe they wouldn't have to go through that process so they're kind of trying to figure that out to on the city clerk side. They don't have an exact answer.
[Allan Martorana]: I told her so. So right now, if I think I'm hearing you right, what they think is kind of a gray area, if they're not serving food, you don't need a special permit.
[Daria Tejera]: Yeah, because she said that they don't have there's like no. city ordinance that's specific to liquor license and clubs. And I think she might have looked into restaurants is what she was telling me. I could confirm with her, but that's what I understood, that there's no actual ordinance that says that they need a special permit license to operate past 11 p.m.
[Allan Martorana]: Mike, Dennis, your thoughts on that or are we split in a gray area or
[SPEAKER_02]: So Jess and I actually spoke about this. I think we're kind of in agreement. In our opinion, that ordinance applies to everybody, every business in the city.
[Allan Martorana]: Clubs included?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to operate from past 11 o'clock, you need a special permit. That's how it was always interpreted, at least by the previous, you know, I know Paul Mulkey, that's kind of how we interpreted it, just from talking to some of the guys that have been here for longer than I have. the longer than we have, but that's, the ordinance is pretty, it doesn't specifically say restaurants, but I think the way we always interpreted it was that it would include being, those businesses would be included in that also. So. Okay.
[Allan Martorana]: So, so the way you are, the way you guys are looking at it, or your opinion is that Your opinion is that it applies to everybody, whether they serve food or not. Is that your thinking?
[SPEAKER_02]: Correct. I don't see why a common VIC license shouldn't even come into play when it comes to the hours of operation.
[Allan Martorana]: OK. And that's based off of precedent or just based off of conversation from people who remember why the rules were put into place?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just precedent. Dennis has been here longer than I have, but just even speaking to Jeff Foggo, who's been here for 20 plus years, and just how everything was always interpreted. The ordinance didn't change. The language stayed the same with the new zoning ordinance. It's basically exactly the same as the old ordinance. It doesn't specifically say restaurants, but it says retail, sales, manufacturing. I mean, that's why there's all different types of businesses that have special permits. It's not just restaurants. It's, you know, Isaac Bush has one. I mean, they operate 24-7. So it's pretty much, I think every business, you know, if you're working extended hours, it does have an effect on the neighborhood and the neighbors. So I think that is something that would go in front of the city council, just because there are implications of a place staying open late. You know.
[Allan Martorana]: enforce that across the board? Is that something that can be done easily within a certain timeframe? Or would that be too big of a task?
[Daria Tejera]: Yes and no. I would think it's more of a bigger because you have to advertise. And it takes about a little bit over a month, Annie was telling me to To go through the whole process you told me before this whole thing came up we're talking about another topic, a couple months ago. It's about a month, a little bit more longer than that to get all of that done plus it has to go in front of the city council. And I don't know. I don't know what kind of volume. They have to because. I mean, it depends on how many clubs want to apply. Only three have reached out to me directly. So I don't know if there's more clubs that have this issue. So if we have to do all clubs, there's about nine of them, 10 of them. So I don't know if that's something that they can fit in probably not February, but March maybe. I would probably give them, I don't know.
[Allan Martorana]: But listening to Mike and Dennis and hearing what you're saying, Somehow it still has to happen whether we enforce it across the board or if we get a legal opinion that reviews it and says, no, no, if they're not serving food, they don't need a special permit. But nevertheless, we still got to go through the process, correct? To get everyone who is serving food or who falls into this has to get a special permit if they don't have one already. Sounds right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be a good idea to get an opinion, say, like, KP or something. But, yeah, I would agree. I think we have to give people time. This isn't something we get a lot of complaints over. We don't get a lot of complaints from. really anybody, Oasis was one little trouble spot where they were complaining a little bit, but they got the special permit. We don't really get many complaints about them. It's not something that we're actively looking at. We have a list of special permits, but we don't look at it and say, oh, well, this business doesn't have it. We don't, you know, I think a lot of them do have special permits. A lot of the places that do stay open late, a lot of clubs don't, but as far as the restaurants, I think most of them that stay open late do. um at least some of them do um but yeah i think it's just you can get a like said get an opinion on it maybe and um and then go from there and sure i think giving them plenty of time to do this is the right thing to do too even if it's given you know three months or whatever it takes. I mean, we're not looking to hurt people, you know?
[Allan Martorana]: Yeah, no, I agree with that. Ben, did you have a question?
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: I saw... Hi, yeah, yeah. Mike, are you talking... So have you guys seen any issues with clubs? Like staying open late? Because this was mostly around clubs was our question.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, we have gotten no complaints in the three years that I've been here. Yeah. And I don't think even Devin said he doesn't remember getting any complaints about extended hours. you know, them operating, you know, until one o'clock. I mean, everyone knows they stay open late. But it's not, a lot of them are kind of like on their own. You don't get, they're not, sometimes they're on big lots and there's not a lot of people around, you know.
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: Like the Legion.
[SPEAKER_02]: The neighbors.
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the Legion kind of like has a big lot. I'm sure the neighbors, I think the neighbors probably expect those places to be open late and they're just used to it anyways.
[Allan Martorana]: Because I like the idea of looking at this and building a policy across the board. for future businesses that come into the city because I can envision as the city keeps evolving and growing, we're going to get more interest and it would be good that we have one straight policy for everybody rather than having it be willy-nilly. What Mike is saying, I do like the idea that we can give them 90 days or 120 days, whatever the timeframe is, whatever is fair. And let's get an opinion from KP Law, and then we'll just follow their suggestion or their recommendation, whether it's everybody or just the merchants that sell food or handle food. Bobby, does that sound right to you? You're my go-to for the details.
[Robert Delafano]: Well, through the chair, and all due respect to everyone here, I think we're going down completely the wrong path. These hours, these clubs in the city of Medford have been in effect for over 40 years. When I first heard about this, I took it upon myself to do some investigating. I contacted Daria where I'm fairly new on the commission to see exactly what the procedure is to print and distribute these licenses once they're approved. For over 40 years, These clubs have been doing this the same way with the same hours till 1 a.m. What happened this year is that we had a little different procedure to kind of, how can I say, make it a little easier in more compact, more mail marriage to get all the licenses renewed printed, whether they be a club, whether they be a restaurant, whether they be a package store, entertainment, and everything got printed out. And all the dates came through, not dates, but the times came through to end at 11 p.m. Now the ones, the handful that have extended hours past 11 p.m. were manually changed. but nobody even thought of looking at the club, which used to automatically print out till 1 a.m. But they didn't this time because of the new process. So what actually occurred here is this was basically a clerical error on the licenses that were mailed out. And that's, I felt very strongly about that. And what I had done is I called Ralph at the ABCC, who we all know is the executive director over there. And he agrees with me 100%. He thinks the only thing that we should be doing is for the city of Medford to send out the new permits, the new licenses, not the new licenses, I'm sorry. they're gonna be amended licenses because they had a mistake on them. And a note should go with them stating, and I kind of like rough draft this with Ralph, the City of Medford License Commission has enclosed the amended club license for 2024 with clerical corrections concerning hours of operation Please post this amended 2024 license immediately. Keep and file this correction letter and dispose of the incorrect license previously received. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Sincerely, City of Medford License Commission. Now, If there's an issue and we don't feel like we're agreeing, if the code compliance, Dennis, Mike, I'll do respect if you don't agree with us. You can run it by KP law, run it through the council. But let's just look at this whole big thing. Over 40 years, it's been 1 AM. You guys just said yourself, never any problems with neighbors or anything going on. Why are we going to put these clubs, even those a handful, 9, 10 of them, through this expense to apply for extension of hours? Bring it before the city council. put it in the newspaper, let it go 30 days, this and that. It's all, in my opinion, a big waste of time, a big waste of everybody's money. And that's the way I feel. And if we're, I mean, I don't know how we handle this whether we take a vote on it or not, but if it's to move forward to leave the hours of operation at 11pm, I cannot support it. I'm sorry. I, I'll vote against it put it that way. But if it's, I mean, all we're trying to do here is the right thing for 40 years. And this is on the advice of the executive director of the ABCC.
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: Can I just say, that's why I asked that question is because I actually, I agree with that, Bobby, because I agree that the restaurants should have like a standard because we have more restaurants applying all the time. We want to give them the same but but clubs and we haven't had a new club applicant in a long time we don't have. current problem with those club licensing to go- The Portuguese one, the Portuguese club. They're newer? Yeah. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Like five years. But I guess the same point is that I just don't, I don't see that being a necessary thing to go and have them redo all of their licenses either. I do think the restaurants need to have, you know, because Oasis is a problem and there's just going to be new restaurants all the time.
[Robert Delafano]: I don't see that with clubs either. Restaurants are an exception to the rule, but these are clubs. And these are the club's rules and regulations. And on page five, it says 1am closing time.
[Allan Martorana]: Yeah.
[Robert Delafano]: you apply for a club license, you apply to these rules and regulations for the city of Medford. And Medford says 1 a.m. Yeah.
[Allan Martorana]: I mean, we're the commission. We can change that if we want. We can. You know, that's that's the beauty in this whole process. But I like the fact that Bobby, I like the fact that you researched it. That's why I kind of kicked it over to you. Daria, is there a way to submit to KP Law both arguments? You know, the building commissioner's thoughts on how things should be interpreted going forward in Bobby's research and present both arguments or both opinions to KP Law and see how they come down on both?
[Daria Tejera]: Yeah, I can inquire.
[Allan Martorana]: Bobby, is there a way that you could put your thoughts and have you already done it? Have you already sent the diary? What your findings?
[Robert Delafano]: Uh, no, but I can, um, I was going to suggest that, um, you know, if this did go through, I would send the, um, the rough proof of the letter that needs to go out to the clubs along with the amended license. You can't call it a new license. You got to call it an amended license because it was, uh, it was a clerical correction that needs to be done. And that's supposedly according to Ralph, all it needs to be done here. I think we're kind of, you know, there was even a question of jurisdiction and stuff. But, I mean, if that's the case, if the building department and the code enforcement officers feel as though they're strongly have strong feelings about what they're saying, then it can go through KP Law and we'll see if there's even jurisdiction here for them. Yeah. I don't feel as though we'd be going down the right path at all. I think we should be doing what we've done the past 40 years and never had a problem with.
[Allan Martorana]: Yeah. But I'd like to, I'd like to settle it and try to get an opinion if we can get both thoughts, if we can get the building departments, their thoughts on everything's changing up is down, down is up. You know, there were so many new rules. Words don't mean the same things anymore. It's just, but I do want to do what's fair for the city, what's fair for the clubs and the restaurants. And, uh, and I, I want it to be uniform. So everyone knew, club or new restaurant that comes in, they know what the rules are and what the expectations are. So just because something's gone on for 40 years, well, it might not be right anymore. Things have changed. But I think if we get both thoughts, if we get the building department's narrative and submit the dowry, and Bobby, you can submit your stuff. Let's put it over to KP Law. see what their thoughts are, and then we would, again, this commission would ultimately make the decision based on the opinion of both arguments. I think Mike was going to add something there. I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Mass General Law states that if a zoning violation has been in effect for longer than 10 years, it's technically granted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's, that's, we don't, I said, I don't know how long, how long they've been operating that long for. We don't get any complaints about it. So we really don't, you know, I'm not at these clubs all the time to know. So, um, but they may be gratified. It's just, you know, whether we see if KP law agrees with that interpretation. Yeah.
[Allan Martorana]: Gary, is this something that we can present both thoughts on how to interpret this and get something back from them? Yeah. Yeah. So let's do that. Bobby, Ben, do you think we should vet both thoughts and go to the acting city solicitor, KP Long?
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, respectfully, I don't know if we need another special meeting for it, or if it can come into our next general business, just as I don't see this as a high priority item. Of course, it's good that we all brought it up. I appreciate Bobby doing that research. But I, but yeah, one, I didn't think the club, you know, we have, we have tightened up clubs because we do ask them to be more better about their paperwork every time they go through. So we have kind of, you know, I do feel it's like we're adding like this extra burden to them now if we do this. So, so that's why maybe we get their advice and we review it at the next meeting and see what we want to do from there. And then see what we want to do about it.
[Robert Delafano]: Sure, sure. Bobby, what about, what say you? I think in the, I mean, I agree you want to go through KP law, that's fine. I think it's an extra step personally. We don't have to do, but that's just my opinion. I'd like to go with the majority on this. The only thing is, I think just to see why a, if while all of this is going on, do we need to make a motion to allow the clubs to continue with their 1 a.m. license until this matter is resolved?
[Allan Martorana]: I think that would be prudent. Yeah. The status quo, keep the status quo until we get an opinion and an official ruling. I think that'd be wise. Yeah, I feel too. Because we were gonna do that anyway. Let's say KP Laws is absolutely not, everyone has to get a special permit. Well, then again, we would probably give everybody 90 to 120 days to get it all in order. So then we would do the same thing. We would say, we would make some motion that they could operate the way they're operating until all the licenses have been amended or whatever the term is. I agree. Bobby, Ben, if you want to make a two-fold motion, let's put it the KP law for their thoughts and also allow the existing license holders to continue with their normal practices or standard practice hours. Uh, until we can get an opinion.
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: Okay, sure, I can do that. Um, all right. Um, I'll make a motion that this board will, um. Allow the. We'll make a motion and we'll allow the existing clubs to operate as they have been while we talk to KP Law to get an opinion on their hours of operation as they currently are. But for now, we will allow them to continue to operate until 1 a.m. until we decide otherwise.
[Allan Martorana]: Yeah, can we insert in there whether a special permit is required? Can we just insert that in there somewhere?
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: The motion will include they can operate until 1 p.m. without a special permit for the time being until we've decided if a special permit from the City Council is required.
[Allan Martorana]: Okay.
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: Bob, are you good with that?
[Allan Martorana]: Yeah, I'll second it. Okay, good. All right, all in favor of the motion on the table, say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay, so Darryl, we got that in place, and then we ask of you, Bobby will give you some talking points or some information, and then whether you already have it, or Mike, if you could give Darryl some of your thoughts, and then we'll send it to KP Law, and we'll see what, they'll put it through the blender, and we'll see what happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[Allan Martorana]: All right, cool. All right, Daria, anything else? Because I did say any and all other businesses that may arise, anything else?
[Daria Tejera]: Yes, so a couple things. One thing about the rule that we voted on last meeting. So I talked to the city clerk, Adam, and he said that that will be official once you guys vote on the minutes, that they can put it like, make it official. Okay. The extra hour.
[Robert Delafano]: Oh, the 33?
[Allan Martorana]: Yes. Yep. Yep. Okay. So I will not be at the next meeting. So Bobby, Ben, make sure that gets voted on and stamped, right? Okay. Good good.
[Daria Tejera]: And then another one is that actually had to do with the hours. So if a person goes in front of the city council they still have to come in front of us to get the special hours right. Like if they want to operate past 11pm they want to operate till 1am. They still have to come in front of us as they go to the city council correct.
[Robert Delafano]: All right, go ahead, Bobby. I have an answer for that only because that was part of my investigation in case this went the other way. What they required to do, which I found, I didn't talk to Ralph about it, and what I could see is if you go on the ABCC website, you get the application for multiple amendments, change of hours, and the only thing they need is the corporate vote page.
[Daria Tejera]: You know what's funny? I asked that because I remember, I think it was ABCC, that they allowed to operate till 1 AM. That's why I was wondering, do they actually need it if they allow establishments to operate till 1 AM in Massachusetts?
[Robert Delafano]: I don't think they do. But these are all the things that are going to snowball. Now what's going to happen is I can see it and I hope it doesn't happen but what's going to happen is these clubs got a lot of members and a lot of members are residents of the city of Medford and now it's going to be going up you know if KP law says yeah we have to do all of this then it's going to be going before the council and there's going to be issues between the council and the residents of the members of these clubs it's just going to Blow up and I hope it doesn't, but this is what I'm afraid of. I mean, if we could, if we could just talk with and get this handled. With an amendment, it'll just wipe out any and all of these questions because we wouldn't even have to do the. The change of hours.
[Allan Martorana]: Yeah, no, I get I hear what you're saying, Bobby. But I want to follow the precedent, the laws, the rules. I mean, I know it may, I hear what you're saying, you know, if that opens up Pandora's box, and but you know, the law is the law, you know, we got, you know, so as long as you know, like I said, I think if we, if we present both arguments, We see what they do, and then we, the local licensing authority, can absolutely make the decision at the end of the day.
[Robert Delafano]: So... Yeah, I mean, well, basically, we make the decision on the advice of KP Law, I would imagine. Because right now it looks like we don't have the jurisdiction to make our advice on our own, our decision on our own. So it's got to be at the point that we can make the decision, and then it's up to the opposing parties, I would say, to go to KP Law and find out if other departments have got jurisdiction over us. which I don't believe they do, but that's my own opinion.
[Allan Martorana]: Yeah, I don't either. But again, I just I want to do it the right way, the fair way and have a standard practice across the board for future clubs, future restaurants, future
[Robert Delafano]: Business in the setting, you know, I agree 100% with the restaurants, because it's on it. They've got common vigilance license. And like Daria said, most of the clubs don't have a common vigilance license clubs or private clubs. It's it's, you know, it's not that they're. But the whole thing is restaurants are in neighborhoods, and neighborhoods like the Oasis issue tend to have some issues, and it should be. And if they want to stay open till later, fine, apply for it, get it. And if there's issues, then we just retract it or whatever. But somebody that's been around 40 years and never had a problem, for a clerical error, it's just, to me, it's a complete waste of time. Like I said, we wanna go through KP Live, double check, do whatever, that's all well and good. Okay, good. Then Daryl, what else, anything else?
[Daria Tejera]: Yeah, sorry, one more question. I had a resident who wants to do a fundraiser for, I think it was for Parents Night Out at a school. After hours, it would be at the high school, it would be like Friday or Saturday night.
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: I'll just might might if you, you can stay on of course or you don't have to stay on if you would, if you would don't want to just don't want to tell you that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll hit the road. Thank you.
[MCM00001210_SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[Robert Delafano]: All right.
[Daria Tejera]: So what I did, I did reach out to the school and just had them connect with the resident who was asking so they can give her an answer. Because I assume we go by, and I just want to confirm with you guys, I assume if the school allows it, that we allow it? But again, it's after hours. It's not while school is in session. It's at the High School Bistro Cafe or something like that. Yeah. So it's isolated.
[Allan Martorana]: It's at 489 or something like that.
[Daria Tejera]: Yeah. Yeah. So she was saying it's not open. I actually told her about the library too, how they do their events there. So she was like, oh, that might be a better space. And I was like, you got to talk to them first, see what they say, and then you can go to us. But I was like, we don't have any rules and regulations that prevents you from doing this at the school. But I told her, of course, she has to get approval first from school or library or whatever she chooses. Sure. Yeah. Okay. I just want to confirm before I tell her, yes, 100 percent, because I told her we'll have a meeting tomorrow, let me confirm, and then I'll let you know.
[Allan Martorana]: Yeah. The Rotary, as Bobby and Ben can attest to, we had our 100th celebration at the library. We had Medford Brewer provide beer and wine, and it worked. We had about 80 people, I think.
[Daria Tejera]: I think it's great for fundraising. People tend to donate more.
[Allan Martorana]: Yeah. Okay. Good, anything else? That's it. Okay. For this meeting. All right, good. All right, that's quick. Bobby, I'm going to give you a call. I just want to chat with you.
[Robert Delafano]: Sure. Daria, I'll email this out to you too. Perfect. Yeah, please do. You can give me a buzz. It's just notes. So I mean, if you want to go into a little more detail, you can call me and we can go over it step by step.
[Allan Martorana]: Okay, perfect. Thank you. All right. Good. Okay. So I'll make a motion to adjourn the meeting. It's 1 41. Do I hear a second? All right. Very good. Thank you for the 2nd. So meeting adjourned. I thank you very much for jumping on. It's short notice. Thank you, Derek. All of this. Thank you, everybody. Thanks, area. Thank you. Bye.